Podcast: Jemar Tisby — “We need a civil rights movement directed toward the church.”
In this second part of my interview with Jemar Tisby—which took place in the fall of 2018—the author, CEO, podcast host, and historian gets real about what it means to care about racial justice, and what his experience has been like in the American church.
“I do lose confidence in individual Christians and individual people,” he says, “and I say that out of experience. I’ve experienced betrayal. I’ve experienced the silence of people who have said they’re allies … this has taught me to be cautious. I try never to simply assume that someone will be my enemy, but I do try to exercise a bit of caution … yeah, I love you, but I don’t automatically trust you.”
“I also distinguish between individual Christians and the church whom Christ said the gates of Hell would not prevail against. I have hope in the church because I have hope in Christ.”
Though Tisby will never claim to be a “kumbaya” sort of person, his hope in Christ propels him toward action. As he says, being a follower of Christ requires that you walk with people; it’s not an idle relationship, but one that calls you into active service with your neighbors and the systems in which they live.
Of course, he knows this is often easier said than done.
“Racial justice is a journey,” he says. “It’s not a destination.”
Part of that journey, Tisby believes, should include Christians holding other Christians accountable; as he puts it, we need to be thinking of a civil rights movement directed toward the church. “Why is it so often that non-Christians have to point out the problems within the church?”
You can listen to the second part of our conversation below.
This is a continuation of my new podcast, Hope in Hell’s Kitchen. While I hope this episode — and those to come — are heard by many, my intention is for it to become a resource for those who are part of Hope Hell’s Kitchen, a new church in our neighborhood in New York City. I’m excited to see how it grows, and to continue sharing conversations centered around the core values of this new church.
You can learn more about Tisby’s work here, and if you haven’t yet, please purchase and read (and read again) The Color of Compromise. You can pre-order his new book, How to Fight Racism: Courageous Christianity and the Journey Toward Racial Justice, here.
You can listen to the first part of our interview here.
Listen to Hope in Hell’s Kitchen via Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Breaker, Pocket Casts, RadioPublic, or Anchor.
