Podcast: Daniel Hill — “We have to call racism demonic.”
Around the time when I interviewed Jemar Tisby, I also had the opportunity to sit down with Daniel Hill, an author, pastor, and church planter from Chicago. While he was in New York City, we grabbed a few minutes to talk about whiteness and Christianity, something he is very familiar with, both personally and professionally. Like the one-on-one with Jemar, this conversation was recorded in the fall of 2018 and is not just seeing the light of day. Sadly, like Jemar’s prophetic words, this interview with Daniel is perhaps more pertinent to the health and future of the American church today than it was two years ago.
“The devil is associated with lies and Jesus is associated with truth,” Hill says in our chat. “I don’t think there is anything more fundamental to Christianity than exposing lies and walking into the truth. So, I think anytime we have individually or especially collectively been complicit with a set of lies, it is very serious business.”
This set of lies Hill mentions is specifically about the construct of race in our world, and how it has completely discipled and shaped generations of Americans and Christians.
“The devil is called a liar…the devil is associated with lies and Jesus is associated with truth.”
If there’s one takeaway from this interview—and there are many, many takeaways—it’s the urgency and seriousness with which Daniel approaches racism and the church.
“We’ll say that racism is bad,” he says, “but that’s such a narrow, superficial way of viewing it. We have to get to [calling] this ideology demonic.”
You can listen to the first part of our conversation below:
This is a continuation of my new podcast, Hope in Hell’s Kitchen. While I hope this episode — and those to come — are heard by many, my intention is for it to become a resource for those who are part of Hope Hell’s Kitchen, a new church in our neighborhood in New York City. I’m excited to see how it grows, and to continue sharing conversations centered around the core values of this new church: Gospel Centered, Antiracist, Spirit-Led Fearlessness, and Neighborhood.
You can stay up-to-date with everything Daniel Hill is up to, and pick up White Awake and White Lies, here.
Listen to Hope in Hell’s Kitchen via Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Breaker, Pocket Casts, RadioPublic, or Anchor.
